| Author |
Message |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 3843
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 6:33 pm: | |
Let's try and please everyone by posting problem games in separate threads. Post as many Sea Towers deals as you want in this one. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 354
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 2:30 pm: | |
I hope, that Double Sea Towers fits also in this thread.
It is my first DST number i have really problems with. I speak from #37. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 3849
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 3:18 pm: | |
DTS in this thread is OK by me. I am beginning to think that the separate threads idea will be no good anyway Markus. It would be better if Jeralyn gave us a list of the games she is interested in and we could move them into a new thread bearing her name. That way she would get everything she wants but none of our other chatter.
Other opinions would be appreciated guys.
Your DTS#37 is quite difficult.
 |
Ken Blackwell (Blackie9)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Blackie9
Post Number: 439
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 3:58 pm: | |
All seems odd to me...I always look for an existing one about the game Im talking about and create one with its name if I cant find one. There are many games with multiple threads. I thought thats the way it always was. |
Mike Butler (Butler77)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Butler77
Post Number: 1371
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 4:28 pm: | |
Ken is correct. Most of the games already have an existing thread. Some are very long so a new one will be in order some times.
In the past we did have so many multiple games being posted at once. But the more the merrier. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 3850
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 4:46 pm: | |
Any democratic decision is fine by me. It is great that the forum is busy, and hopefully there will not be a prohibitive number of threads active simultaneously. Let's keep pigeon holing things and see how it works out. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 356
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 1:50 am: | |
Ok, Richard, than i have to spent some more time. I think it is the most difficult so long, but it is, as i think: In DTS are most games winnable or do you know an unwinnable number?
I am just thinking about, how it was, when i started using the forum. I searched for a Penguin game, but there have been so much results, that it took a time to find the right thread. So it seemed to me easier to put my problem games (various) in a new thread, because it took less of time than searching. My climb-mode games are also very seldom in the forum, because there are mostly high number games.
I think, for me it is the best, when there is a game thread, than i put it there, when i have more than one problem games, than i put it in Richards thread, which i opened a few days ago, or i start a new thread with my name. I think, that is for me and my problems the best solution. What do you think about that? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 3852
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 4:15 am: | |
We should try and keep the peace Markus. Look and see if there is a thread for the game you want and if there is not one, just open a new one. Sooner or later someone will be looking for that particular game and will find threads that we have already created. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 357
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 11:22 am: | |
DST #37. Difficult, but i hope there are harder ones. I should have spent yesterday a few more minutes, but i had been too tired. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 477
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 2:50 am: | |
ST #1408 (3) (a larger (?) score is maybe possible (52?))
STH #172 (5) (i can get close to solve it but then is "one move missing" (?)) |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4040
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 3:37 am: | |
Good morning.
 |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 204
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 4:06 am: | |
Markus, I love playing Double Sea Towers. I have not lost a game yet. Those I have had trouble with Richard has helped me with. Once you get used to playing it, it becomes more fun although still challenging.
I like the idea of different threads for different games. I hardly ever use the search function now, and I find interesting games that others are playing. So my vote is keep the separate threads for the games. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4045
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 7:18 am: | |
I agree about the separate threads. I had doubts about it working successfully, but I was wrong.
BTW Kathy, Markus has won a huge number of Sea Towers and Double Sea Towers. He's a bit of a fanatic with them. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 480
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 7:35 am: | |
Kathy, this thread is for all Sea Tower games. That means Sea Towers, Sea Towers hard (Kings only) and Double Sea Towers. It doesn't make sense to start a new thread for every single game i mentioned.
Richard, as i wrote, i could get close, but i will now looking for the move i missed. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 481
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 7:42 am: | |
Found it. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4051
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 2:30 pm: | |
(Continued from the Fan thread).
Your ST #1408 (3) A larger score is maybe possible, but I don't think so.
An explanation of this correction from the Fan thread.(It should be....didn't get......did you?). Your.... didn't get...didn't you.....is a double negative. One cancels out what the other one said.
I'm now going to resume my battle with Malmaison. It's driving me nuts. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 518
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 3:05 am: | |
DST #60 is a nice one. It took me some time to win it. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4122
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 9:20 am: | |
A tricky little number! Thanks.
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 521
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 10:52 am: | |
Your welcome. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 522
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 10:53 am: | |
Sorry, meant you're welcome. My speedy fingers again. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 524
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 4:10 pm: | |
Another one, where i had to start twice. Again a little bit tricky all time. #64. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4136
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:29 am: | |
Sorry Markus, I found this one easy. If you get the correct starting sequence it makes a huge difference.
..for the teacher. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 529
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 12:17 pm: | |
Will watch it tomorrow. When you got the right starting sequence, then it has been no problem, but i don't know why, exactly this starting sequence i didn't find. I was at the beginning fixed on the last piles (when i remember right), but the solution i found leeds (?) me through the 4th (when i remember right) pile. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4139
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 12:57 pm: | |
I sometimes get obsessed with a particular starting sequence, and completely overlook something that is far easier. Often it pays you to spend a minute or two just having a good look at the tableau before you make a start. I'm glad that you have weaknesses too.
We say....."if I remember right"....."leads" is the correct spelling. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 532
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 3:21 am: | |
Richard, i can't watch your solution, because the game number is beyond (?) 30. The trial version allows to open from #1 to #30. And i cannot use the undo button anymore (?). That means, i cannot look your "solving way" (?).
I play DST because i want to know, if there is an unwinnable game number. Do you know one? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4144
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 4:05 am: | |
I can't "open" you solution......."solving way" is not very good, "solution" is the word you are looking for. (Apart from that, all OK).
Sorry,I don't know any unwinnable DST's. It is not a game I play very often. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 543
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 2:41 pm: | |
I just played DST #71. It is winnable, "but it was (for me) so far the hardest one" (?).
(Richard, what do you think about that game number?) |
Mike Butler (Butler77)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Butler77
Post Number: 1418
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 3:46 pm: | |
Richard is on holiday. He will probably be back next Friday or Saturday. Your English is getting very good Markus. My son is taking German in college. I hope we get to use it someday. My travels in Germany were not extensive. And I really didn't need it as most people spoke English. We have so many languages in use around where I live I just stick to English. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 277
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 8:08 pm: | |
Markus, DST #71 is winnable. I just solved it. See if you can get it on your own first. If not, I'll try and remember how to upload either the solution or give some starting hints. It took me quite a while, but I finally found the right starting sequence. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 544
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 1:06 am: | |
Kathy, i wrote that it is winnable, but a harder one. I solved it already. I posted it for other players, who are interested in harder game numbers. And i hope, they enjoy it then also like (?) me.
From Richard i want to know, how hard he find it (a stinker, a mind braker, ...)
Mike, i know that Richard is in Edinburgh for a week. I try to improve my English with every message i post. But sometimes my mind is so empty, that i have even to use the dictionary for a word like (?) "leer" (empty). And i know, there will be messages, where my English will be as bad as at (?) the beginning. But, that's me.
BTW, where have you been in Germany? |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 278
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 5:09 am: | |
Markus, I misread your post. I thought you said is it winnable. BTW, I thought you could play only up to #30 in games or is it just certain games? All these different versions confuse me. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 545
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 5:27 am: | |
In PGSME i have 200 games out of those 740 games of PC PGS. For example i have DST, Bakers game, Bastion, ..., but i don't have Haystack, Pitchfork, ...
Those i don't have, i can play on workdays. Playing numbers are #1 to #30. The trial version you can play with nearly all features for 30 days. After that you can play the games, but you cannot use anymore the undo-button. You can only save the game on a position and open them from there, but undo moves i cannot do anymore. That makes the challenge for me playing on work a little harder.
So, when you have a game you like and i have it in Mac Edition, i can help with (?) all game numbers. When you want to know, which games i have, then look here:
http://www.goodsol.com/mac/index.html |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 546
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 5:45 am: | |
STH #175 "is giving me problems" (?). I can get close to win it, but i can score 11 so far. |
Mike Butler (Butler77)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Butler77
Post Number: 1420
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 12:31 am: | |
Markus. My travels in Germany were very short. A trip to Rhine Falls was it. We were in Zurich waiting to fly home. And had an extra day. So we made a trip to a town called Winterthur to see an art museum then stopped at the falls. They were very impressive. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 555
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 3:53 am: | |
So you have had the experience to hear Swiss German. Nice. It's completely different. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4178
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 10:30 am: | |
STH #175 "is giving me problems" too Markus. I can only score 11 the same as you. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 565
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 11:27 am: | |
Hi Richard, back again. Ok. I was quite (?!) sure, that it was unwinnable, because i tried nearly every combination. But i came so close, that i wanted to here your opinion (?).
BTW, DST #71 is winnable, but in my opinion a nice one. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 566
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 11:34 am: | |
ST #1489 gave me a few (?) days back (?) problems. I didn't try "since again" (?). What do you mean? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4182
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 12:22 pm: | |
It's nice to be back Markus.
I'm not surprised that ST #1489 gave you problems a few days back/a few days ago.
"What do you mean?" means that you do not understand someone. You intended to ask, "What do you think?"
I think that it is unwinnable. I can only score 3. (You want to hear someone's opinion.(Not here)). |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 567
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 2:27 pm: | |
The next i got stuck: STH #176. Always one move missing. Best score so far 9. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 568
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 2:28 pm: | |
(Obviously better: The next i got stuck WITH, isn't?) |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4184
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 3:31 pm: | |
It's winnable Markus. Not easy though, as you have already discovered.
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 569
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 3:52 pm: | |
You are to kind. Call me Bat today. I put all clubs onto the JC and didn't see, that i can put them all also onto the QC. It was an easy one.  |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4187
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 6:11 pm: | |
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 575
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 1:10 pm: | |
What Gif i have to post for STH #177? Another big Bat? Can score only 4. Hope dies last, that my eyes are back. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4199
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 1:41 pm: | |
Here is one you could use. .
  |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 576
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 2:21 pm: | |
Seems my patience isn`t the best today. Replayed it with a simply totally different starting sequence and did it within 1 minute. Thanks to god, that we have next week holidays (1 week). Maybe i can relax a little. I had to correct lately a lot of tests (over 100) and it seems, that that "have tracks left" (?). How do you like my Gig-ensemble?
     |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 577
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 2:28 pm: | |
You won't believe it: I did one by myself!!!  |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4201
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 2:34 pm: | |
Excellent gifs Markus.
Not sure what you mean by "have tracks left". Do you mean "have traces left"? or perhaps that you are still suffering the effects of marking all those tests? |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 335
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 2:54 pm: | |
Where do you guys get all these different gifs? I'm looking for some "critter" gifs for a collection I'm starting, but I don't know where to start. BTW Richard, your red squirrel is on my critter wall. I just downloaded a picture of a lamb and want to enlarge it. Do I use my paint program, and is it hard? |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 578
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 2:59 pm: | |
>Do you mean "have traces left"? or perhaps that you are still suffering the effects of marking all those tests?<
I just saw, that i couldn't even write Gif right. Time to go to bed.  |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4202
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 3:20 pm: | |
Kathy, I don't know what you are running in your PC but you must have something fairly similar to mine.
First click on a photo you have in your computer, and it will open like this.
I've circled the size that it is starting off in my picture. Yours will be a different size.
Now I've clicked on "Picture" and chosen "Resize" from the menu.
You should then see something that allows you to enlarge or shrink your photo. If it offers you a percentage, so much the better. Just type in the new size, say 150% to make it bigger, then click on OK.
This photo is from Dirleton Castle near Edinburgh. I took it a few years ago. That's where we were a few days ago. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 594
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 3:11 pm: | |
I have my eyes back. ST #1507 IS winnable, but a nice one (in my opinion). What do you think (!)? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4220
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 3:37 pm: | |
A tricky game Markus. It had me puzzled for a while.
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 595
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 3:38 pm: | |
You had been 4.5 seconds faster than me. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 619
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2010 - 2:36 pm: | |
How about ST #1519. Yesterday i couldn't solve it. Today i also can see any way, but i am to tired to "fell a judgement". |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4245
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2010 - 3:16 pm: | |
I would call this one a loser. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 621
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 12:24 am: | |
So, my inspiration about that game has been right and i don't have to spend (spent?) time on it today. Thanks. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 634
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 4:07 pm: | |
ST #1537 is looking bad. Not winnable in my opinion. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4261
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 4:16 pm: | |
Agreed. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 635
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 4:17 pm: | |
And is DST #91 the first loser (looser?)? Tried (?) for about 10 minutes and could score so far about 7. Will try tomorrow again and will have some sleep yet. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 636
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 4:28 pm: | |
And to make the family complete: STH #183 seems to be unwinnable too. 3 aces is all i can get onto the foundation piles. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4262
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 4:35 pm: | |
I can beat your score Markus. Sleep well.Ha! |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4263
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 4:45 pm: | |
 |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4264
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 5:05 pm: | |
One more space would win STH#183. I can only score 3 two different ways.
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 638
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 12:38 am: | |
I hope, the DST game was not an easy one. Will give him a closer look today later.
I have had the same problem with the STH. That picture "i am knowing" (?).
(Guess i right, that when you didn't correct my questionmarks, that it had been right or are you simple to busy or have you also one week free as me?) |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 639
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 12:59 am: | |
Are they harder than (?!?) normal, but the next i got stuck with 10 is STH #185. Always one cell missing. That's the best i can get so far.
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 640
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 1:10 am: | |
Had to give the DST game a try, i couldn't wait. It was a little harder than normal, but not very hard. I had been yesterday already close, but one move i didn't recognize. So, i am still waiting for the unwinnable DST (as you for the unwinnable QI) game. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 388
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 3:41 am: | |
Am trying to further my score on DST, but I cannot seem to win #2135133439. Is it winnable? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4266
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 4:09 am: | |
Wallpapering today. What joy!
Will work on your STH #185 later Markus. My first attempts failed. Sometimes we hit bad patches of numbers and they appear to be harder than normal. We don't notice the same when they are easier than normal. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 389
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 4:20 am: | |
Are you finished painting already? What's next after wallpapering? It's uplifting to see someone juggling multiple tasks in one day, which I have done but on a much smaller scale. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4269
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 5:03 am: | |
The painting is finished apart from the odd bit of touching up that may need doing. I've just finished filling and sanding the walls prior to papering. Needed a cuppa. That dust gets everywhere. After the wallpapering I have some floor tiles to lay and the bathroom is finished. The tools won't be getting put away though. Liz wants the bedroom sorted next. My enthusiasm knows no bounds.
This will cheer Markus up though. Why should I have all the fun?
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 642
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 8:21 am: | |
The Clubs problem this time with the diamonds, but got it. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 405
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 11:59 pm: | |
I think I found a DST that is unwinnable -- #2135133441. I can only get 10 points. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 652
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 12:37 am: | |
Could score already 13 points. I think, it will also be a winner, but a harder one. Let see, what i can do. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 653
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 12:47 am: | |
Winnable. Try to get this position.
When i remember right: QS onto KS, 8H up, QH up, 2S/3S/4S onto foundation, 3C/2C onto 4C, 4D up, 6D onto7D, 5S onto 6S. After that i tried to free the AS in the 10th column (JH/10H onto QH ... i don't remember exactly). I could also post a solution, but you can not open the file. For that you have to wait for Richard or another player. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 407
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 5:23 am: | |
Thanks Markus, between your screenshot and your directions, I did things just a little different but won. Couldn't have done it without you. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 697
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 8:10 am: | |
ST #1555
STH #188
Will have a closer look later, but both are not fast ones. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4344
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 8:50 am: | |
Got ST#1555 at my first attempt Markus.
You should go and beat up some pupils now.
About to try your other one. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4345
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 8:57 am: | |
Oh dear! The time includes stopping to save it.
More pupils need punished.
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 698
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 11:11 am: | |
It took you longer than my average times. That means not fast. I haven't had time for a closer look. Maybe in a couple of hours i take a look over again. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 701
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 12:49 pm: | |
Sorry for disturbing you. It isn't worth playing, when you are in a hurry (?) and just want to play one more game (in 60 seconds) till you have to leave the place behind the computer.
BTW i did it the Richard way: i take all the time and have had a look first. That helps me, to see the right start the first time i tried it again.
And why i posted this STH game, i don't know. Maybe i mixed it up with another game or game number. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4354
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 1:36 pm: | |
Nobody disturbs me in PGS Markus. You must have been in a hurry, because neither game was particularly difficult. (BTW, I only studied the games for 10-15 seconds before I started playing). |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 714
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 4:15 pm: | |
Richard, STH #189 is a nice winnable one. I just wanted to shift (?) it up (?) onto (?) tomorrow, but then i found the right combination. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 721
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 6:47 am: | |
Just an opinion with looking at the start (not playing it or just 3 or 4 moves): ST #1563.
Winnable? Hard? Very hard? Unwinnable? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4366
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 7:19 am: | |
My first impressions are that it could be unwinnable. Not much time to play solitaire until this evening. Will try again later. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 722
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 10:08 am: | |
That was my first thought. Not a hard one. About 4 minutes. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4369
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 10:23 am: | |
It's actually quite an easy game provided you spot the best opening moves. I must have had my eyes shut earlier today.
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 750
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 12:28 pm: | |
Richard, just tell me, that they are easy winnable, so that i found a reason to go to bed.
ST #1591
STH #191
DST #101 (winnable, but far from easy. You have to find the right start.) |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4435
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 2:53 pm: | |
STH#191 was beaten in well under 3 minutes. I will try your other one next.
 |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4436
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 3:18 pm: | |
No joy with ST #1591 Markus. I can only score 6 so far. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4437
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 3:54 pm: | |
Giving up with 7 scored. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 760
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2010 - 4:10 am: | |
I am glad with your upgiving at ST #1591.
STH #191 i did today in about 4 minutes at work. Have to rewin it at home. After finding the right start (left side) it was just step after step and not anymore difficult. Don't ask, why i didn't see it BATsterday. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 776
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 1:30 pm: | |
Richard, with which cards you scored 6 in ST #1591? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4462
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 - 3:51 pm: | |
I scored 7 Markus. A,2,3,4C. A,2H. AS. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 779
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 12:50 am: | |
I remember that start, when i tried the game the first time, but after that, i forgot it and was fixed on other starting sequences. Of course 7. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 796
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 12:48 pm: | |
Batday again.
ST #1601
STH #192
DST #102
I believe, that all are winnable. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4480
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 1:56 pm: | |
One so far.
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 800
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 2:02 pm: | |
About that, i was quiet sure. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 801
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 2:04 pm: | |
QUITE. I am typing with 10 fingers and mostly blind: fingererror. It is bad, that the difference in writing is so little and the difference in meaning is so big. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 803
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 2:13 pm: | |
First i tried about 7 minutes, and now, i did it in 4 minutes. Bat/d day.
 |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4483
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 2:38 pm: | |
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 804
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 3:03 pm: | |
Yes, i won it, but i don't know exactly how. Maybe i should have disabled the Autoplay button.
One to go. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4485
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 4:01 pm: | |
I don't fancy the last one. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 816
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2010 - 6:22 am: | |
Hard time with Sea Towers.
ST #1601
STH #194 |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4506
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2010 - 12:29 pm: | |
Two losers I think. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1023
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 5:14 am: | |
ST #1684. Unwinnable. Maximum score 3?
STH #203 is a nice winnable one. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4732
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 6:15 am: | |
I have not beaten 3 with #1684.
 .....agreed.Nice one. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1087
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 1:54 pm: | |
Should be STH #204 really unwinnable? I can score 12 points, but i cannot find so far the right combination to win it. Can anyone win it? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4767
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 4:07 pm: | |
I can get 17 Markus. More may be possible. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4768
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 4:10 pm: | |
One card was in the wrong place. It's winnable. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 4:34 pm: | |
I knew it. Let's see, how much more minutes (so far about 20) it take me. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1093
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 4:54 pm: | |
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1099
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 12:07 pm: | |
After 102 - 1 i got again an unwinnable one: #1788. Are more points than 3 possible? |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 12:40 pm: | |
DST #113. Winnable, but far from easy. A nice one. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1151
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 4:01 pm: | |
I have problems with ST #1788. Can it be a winner? |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1152
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 4:04 pm: | |
Had just another look. Would say definitely unwinnable and 3 points is maximum. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1182
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 3:04 pm: | |
Three interesting numbers:
ST #1809 : unwinnable, maximum 2 points (that's the most uninteresting one)
DST #121 : winnable, but the start is tricky.
STH #206 : strange one. I think it is winnable, but i couldn't so far arrange the cards in a way, that it made it a winner. My best score so far: 43 !!! |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4915
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 3:20 pm: | |
 |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4916
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 3:37 pm: | |
"unwinnable" "Maximum 2 points" "most uninteresting".................. Oh no!
No more Spa holidays for you Markus! |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1184
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 3:40 pm: | |
I knew it. Finally i found the right Kings and Spades-Sequence. I had two wrong moves.
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1185
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 3:52 pm: | |
Good night. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4917
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 4:29 pm: | |
Good night Markus. If it's any consolation I'm getting nowhere near your B.G. score of 14. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1186
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 12:39 am: | |
Good morning.
I stopped yesterday after 15 minutes. My total time: 17:45.9. That says it all. I just didn't see, that it is also possible to get the 3 pile free.
(It is obvious, that the screenshot is winnable.) |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 4920
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 3:14 am: | |
It certainly looked unwinnable Markus. My intention was to see if I could score three, and it just developed from there. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1189
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 4:22 am: | |
Three i reached yesterday also. But the solution came today. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1363
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 8:37 am: | |
How about
ST #1831
STH #207
DST #144 (I think winnable, but not easy. Have no time anymore to play it till the end.) |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 974
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 5:29 am: | |
Is ST #1962201744 winnable? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5215
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 9:25 am: | |
Yes it is Kathy.
|
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 975
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 9:32 am: | |
It's about time you got back. I missed you. You would be proud of me, though. I had several games that I would have asked you for help right away, but since you weren't here, although it took me days, I did figure them out.
BTW, I was asking about Sea Towers 1962201744 not Double Sea Towers. I don't think it's winnable, but I thought I'd ask to make sure. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5217
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 10:05 am: | |
Thank you. It's nice to have been missed. We had a far longer break than planned. The weather was too good to come home.
Sorry about posting the wrong game. Still shell shocked with all the travelling.
I can't win ST1962201744 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1372
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 5:09 am: | |
Back from Bulgaria.
How about
ST #1831
STH #207
DST #144 (I think winnable, but not easy. Have no time anymore to play it till the end.) |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5239
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 6:09 am: | |
No joy with the other two so far. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1379
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 2:02 am: | |
ST #1832 ?
That means two hard or unwinnable ST-games in a row. Can score 5 Diamonds but cannot free the AS. If this is possible, then it is winnable. Can anyone do this? |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5249
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 4:52 am: | |
Looks like 5 is the maximum. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1381
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 5:04 am: | |
I agree. Gave him just another overlook, but no advance.
It's interesting, because STH #208 seems to be with #207 another unwinnable double. Can score 6 so far and can build big piles, but then are important cards deeply buried. 6 the best so far. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1454
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2010 - 10:45 am: | |
Before my trip, i stopped at ST #1839 and DST #208. Both took me already some time (more than my average), but without success. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5484
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2010 - 11:26 am: | |
Ome down, one to go........maybe.
 |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5485
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 30, 2010 - 11:39 am: | |
 |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1213
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 11:27 am: | |
Is Sea Towers #219 winnable? Just let me know. I'm having a bad day today, but if I know it's winnable, I'll put it aside and try tomorrow. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1462
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 12:12 pm: | |
 |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5495
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 12:17 pm: | |
Yes it's winnable Kathy.
Get to the screen position first and then play the 3C down onto the 4. Then sort out column 1.
 |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1484
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 1:30 pm: | |
Oh, i just saw, that i asked for DST #208. That is of course winnable. That i would not have asked.
I meant STH #208. I can score 7 points, but cannot win it. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5520
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 3:44 pm: | |
With STH #208 I can't remember scoring 7. I can get 6 very easily. Have you a partial solution to see if that inspires me? |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1485
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 4:08 pm: | |
Solution would not help you. You cannot open it. But i think the screenshot will do the same. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5521
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 4:46 pm: | |
Thanks Markus. I realised that I'd been here earlier, then I replayed it loads of times to try and get all the clubs in one column. I can't win it. 7 maximum. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1486
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 1:14 am: | |
Nice to see you tried the same as i. You cannot get access to one of the 3. Always one cell less. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
New Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 10:54 am: | |
In SeaTowers easy 0 to 289 range, I've been able to solve all except the following:
#45
#167
#263
#288
#289
I've seen elsewhere suggestions that #45 and #167 are impossible. Are the others impossible also?
|
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5524
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 1:50 pm: | |
Hi Glen, Markus has won 1814 Sea Towers out of the first 1850. He'll let you know about the numbers you are interested in. Look back tomorrow. He posts most days. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1490
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 6:12 am: | |
Richard is right. when i am not on a short Trip then i post if necessary everything Day. BUT i am on a trip. that means you have to wait till tomorrow eves. i write this post on my iPod. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
New Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 3:07 am: | |
another tough / impossible one:
#45
#167
#263
#288
#289
#317
|
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5532
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 3:45 am: | |
#317 is impossible Glen. Very few possible openings ending in failure pdq. It will be interesting to see if Markus has had any joy with the rest of the bunch. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1491
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 8:43 am: | |
I agree with all your numbers only not with #289. I won this game and have lost #299. I think it is a posting error. Up to 1000 i have another 9 unwinnable games.
I just replayed both games and won #289 and got again 3 points with #299.
(The everything in my last post in this thread had been a every. That cames from the autofill-option of my ipod.) |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5535
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 9:00 am: | |
I was awaiting your results Markus. Like you, I could only win one of the games Glen posted. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
New Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 1:36 pm: | |
Thanks Markus and Richard! Markus you are correct, #289 was a posting error it was indeed #299 that I failed on. Sorry about that. I'm really pleased to hear that so few games up to 1000 are impossible. Would you mind giving me the list of 9? If you don't want to do it here you can get me at markus@glenmcd.com
Sometimes my neighboor and I have "races", solving some particular string of ST games. It's rather an anticlimax when we hit upon an unsolvable one. We both started at zero at same time.
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1497
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 2:17 pm: | |
Do you playing in climb mode?
BTW for me it takes away the fun knowing a game number is particularly unwinnable, because i then don't try to get the maximum possible score. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Junior Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 2:25 am: | |
Not sure what you mean by "climbing mode". I started at game #0 then I played #1 then #2 etc. Sounds like climbing I guess.
I'm not interested at all in the maximum possible score. If I decide that one is impossible I just move on. Anyway thanks very much for the help with the ones mentioned above, much appreciated.
|
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5546
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 4:29 am: | |
Glen, Climb Mode is a feature in the Goodsol 101 collection of games. Everybody starts at game 1 and progresses automatically upwards through the numbers. You can't skip games that you know are losers.
BTW, in P.G.S. we figured out that game #0 is merely a random number. You will get a different one every time you try it. It's pretty pointless.
I hope you are not going to vanish from the forum. We could do with more regulars. You'll get a few laughs if nothing else. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1241
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 5:48 am: | |
Speaking of regulars. The other day I was going through some old posts. It's a wonder you guys didn't all get together and ban me from the forum. I was a mess. I guess I still am, but at least now I know it. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1498
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 10:07 am: | |
How about STH #209. I can score 15 points, but no winner so far. Where is the tricky move with the Kings. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1499
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 10:11 am: | |
And ST #1873? It looks winnable, but only 7 so far. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5555
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:07 am: | |
I've had 7 with two aces up and seven with three aces up. Strange! |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Junior Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:15 am: | |
I can't get ST #1873 out Markus. Thanks for the tip about #0 Richard, never noticed that before.
Climbing mode sounds like a good idea, maybe it will make it into PGS later.
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1501
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:16 am: | |
You mean:
and
 |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5556
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:21 am: | |
Exactly!
Unwinnable I would say. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1502
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:28 am: | |
I asked because of the stats. When you know, a game is unwinnable, then you can just start a new game and it will not be counted as a loss. So you can do 100% even in a game which is only 80% winnable.
In climb this is not possible, because, when you start a new game, the game you canceled will be shown as a loss.
That's why i asked if you are playing climb mode.
BTW it is funny to find a game, which seems to be unwinnable for you and then you ask in the forum and then (mostly Richard) will tell you it is winnable (or you are right) and then you go back to the drawing board till you won it. (Sometimes it is hard to get Richards (or the others) maximum score.)
We hope you are more often here and post your problem games. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Junior Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:33 am: | |
My updated (and corrected) ST list:
#45,#167,#263,#288,#299,#317
#321 (new)
ST #331 was a tough one for me (around 2 hours).
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1503
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 12:25 pm: | |
I think you just have had a bad time. There had been harder ones you have solved. Sometimes i am so concentrated on a starting sequence, that i don't see the most obvious and easiest way. When i then solved it, i mostly cannot understand, why it take it so long. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5557
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 12:54 pm: | |
Just to clarify......are you/we talking about 321 or 331? |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1504
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 2:21 pm: | |
#321 i has registered in my stats as unwinnable with 1 point. It seems that Glen have had difficulties with #331, which is of course winnable. It seems he run always in the same dead end as sometimes happens to me too, so that he didn't see, the obvious starting sequence. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5561
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 2:36 pm: | |
I won 331 fairly easily Markus. I thought that Glen had made a typing error between 321 and 331. I couldn't figure out how anyone could have won 321 even after 2 hours. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1507
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 2:45 pm: | |
I replayed it also and needed almost the same time. Just 0.2 s slower. All in all about 20 seconds under my average time for ST. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1510
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 12:22 am: | |
Maybe it wasn't recognized:
"How about STH #209. I can score 15 points, but no winner so far. Where is the tricky move with the Kings."
BTW i gave ST #1873 already a loss yesterday Richard. (There had been some overlapping posts and i saw your answer today morning.) |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Junior Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 7
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 12:58 am: | |
I'm hesitant to discuss stats or solver apps here Markus but I'm happy to do so via email.
Has anyone managed to solve ST #385?
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1511
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 1:07 am: | |
No. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1512
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 1:12 am: | |
Don't be hesitant. We have had discussions about stats and other things, that it comes Mike (stats discussion) already out of the ears. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Junior Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 2:47 am: | |
Regarding stats, it appears that fudging them is as simple as editing a standard text file. In less than a minute using a programmable text editor I could have stats of a million games, 100% success rate on the online leaderboard and without actually solving any at all. Thus I can't really see avoiding the sharing of impossible games as something that could prevent the online leaderboards from being value-less (they already are).
It is my hope that some day there will be many types of games in which we can compete online without any opportunity for cheating at all. Cloud gaming is a proposed solution but I don't think its time is quite here yet. I do sim racing in "GTR Evolution" and in that guys hack a text file to get more horsepower and better traction than is normally possible. I'm a decent driver but I nearly always come last. I play Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 and guys use their networking skills on their own router to quit from a game when behind without a loss being recorded and without a win for the opponent. Thus 100% success rate can again be guaranteed. Security against cheating simply isn't taken seriously enough by most game developers IMO although there are notable exceptions. I've heard responses of "most people play offline anyways". The offline players are mostly those that would like to compete online but won't do what it takes to be competitive (cheat). I'm in that category.
|
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1251
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 4:22 am: | |
Glen, I didn't know such programs existed like you mentioned above. In PGS, although there is a suspicion that cheating in stats goes on, on the whole we're still able to be competitive. For me, I like playing PGS for fun, but part of that fun is to compete and see if I can get a better score than others. It wouldn't be fun if I cheated just to get the best score. It's a great feeling when I make #1 in the stats on my own. It doesn't happen very often, but I've done it a couple of times. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5566
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 4:24 am: | |
Welcome to the club Glen. We ALL have issues with the stats. I don't post any at all because as you have pointed out, they are completely worthless. Even the most incompetant idiot could figure out how to cook the books.
The nearest we can get to a cheat-free zone is in Goodsol's 101 collection. Everybody plays identical games in Climb Mode. Some people probably pre-play games under an alter-ego before playing them for real. This would enhance their stats, particularly time wise. Apart from that it is totally honest. We do however have issues with 101 too. We have had the stats trashed by MORONS who simply rattle through the games at breakneck speed and accumulate points. It is not unusual for one of these CLOWNS to top the tables with PATHETIC winning percentages just to leapfrog the people who go all out to win every game that is winnable. I've stopped posting 101 stats too. Why bother?
Feel free to voice your opinions here Glen. Everyone else has.................with the notable exception of the CHEATS. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1513
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 4:45 am: | |
Glen, i am playing PGS Mac Edition. Ok, i have only 200 games so far, but for all the possibility of climb mode. There are extra stats for them. As Richard mentioned, they are more honest then the others. I am not looking for being #1, because as Richard already said, there are a few who just play a lot of games to get #1 without really trying it to solve a game number. When it comes out, they were lucky, when not, they don't bother. But i look at the stats to compare with the honest players (e.g. Ken Millar, Mike Butler, (sometimes Richard (yes there are games where your stats still on Richard)), Trisha, Bib, ...) and i look, if i can do the same as they (e.g. when Gregg have won 20 out of 24 games, than i try to do the same, without knowing the unwinnable ones.
Maybe the climb mode will also come for PGS and not only in Goodsol 101 and PGSME. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5567
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 4:49 am: | |
I must have overlooked your post about STH209 Markus. I can get 15 too, 6C,6H,2S,AD. It does look as if it should be winnable but one vital card is always missing no matter which route I try. I'll plug away at it again shortly.
(All three of us agree that ST#1873 has a maximum score of 7).
BTW Glen, where do you live? |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1514
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 5:03 am: | |
Yes to #1873. Yes to STH #209. I cannot find that move.
Here a typical climb mode stat:
http://scores.goodsol.com/topscores/scores/pgs/thi evesofegypt_climb.html |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1255
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 5:11 am: | |
Markus, I'm hurt that you didn't include me among the honest players. I didn't think you thought that badly about me. As you can tell, I'm grouchy this morning. Probably my usual morning headache. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5571
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 5:16 am: | |
Kathy, Markus was talking about the 101 stats. You are not in them. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1516
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 5:17 am: | |
Thanks Richard for explaining. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Junior Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 5:48 am: | |
>BTW Glen, where do you live?
I live 30km west of Brisbane, QLD, Australia. I spent some time in UAE (Dubai and Sharjah), Uzbekistan (Tashkent), Hawaii and Oregon USA, Bangkok in Thailand, Iran plus short stays in Malaysia and Qatar. I haven't got any travel plans at moment though. Come November I'll probably disappear for a year as a game that I've waited 5+ years for (Gran Turismo 5) is due to be released.
But over the years I keep coming back to PGS in between other games. From what I can find in my emails my first PGS purchase was in Feb 2002. I was probably playing the free one before that but that's too long ago to remember now. I started with freecell in Windows (I think it may have been Windows 3.1 which came on about 6 floppy discs at the time), then freecell in PGS and finally settled on Sea Towers as my favourite. If I get bored with ST then I'll probably check out double ST. I couldn't play it before because I didn't have enough screen resolution. Nowadays I play on a 46" LCD TV at 1920 x 1080 res. A couple of months ago I bought a Microsoft Sidewinder X8 mouse. It's a gamers mouse and you can program most of the buttons on it including the tilting wheel and side buttons. This can be done per application. In PGS I use the side buttons for snapshots, the wheel tilt (left and right) for undo and redo, and the MMB (click the wheel down) for automove. I don't like AutoPlay.
|
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1256
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 5:57 am: | |
You don't have to explain anything to me, Richard. Contrary to public opinion, I'm not a complete idiot. I can read between the lines. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5574
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 6:44 am: | |
Kathy, in 46 minutes you've had a go at Markus and the me! Which lines are you reading between? If I've got something to say I will tell you. No cryptic clues. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5575
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 6:56 am: | |
Thanks Glen. I just wondered given your very Scottish name. You probably already know that your family originated in Perthshire, about 90 minutes south of where I live,(near to Aberdeen). I've been to McDiarmid Park in Perth, home to St.Johnstone Football Club.
You've certainly seen a bit of the world, things most of us have only seen on TV.
Floppy discs! There is something we're well short of. I've got one button on my mouse that does stuff. It just annoys me. I think I've got Old Dog Syndrome. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1257
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 8:17 am: | |
Richard, I've already posted my email address here. No one has ever emailed me, although I know you email each other. But that's not the point. If you want to know what's really bothering me, you can email me and I'll let you know. Otherwise, just forget it.
kathyq01@msn.com |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5576
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 8:53 am: | |
I can honestly say that I've never seen your email address anywhere Kathy. (Until now that is).
I get the odd email from Ken, usually just a single line. I've not heard from Mike for ages. I couldn't tell you the last time I talked to Paul outwith the forum. I get a line or two from Markus usually just trying to clarify something he's not understood properly in the forum. Apart from a line or two from Donna Doyle who's not posted in the forum for years, that the whole bunch. I WILL email you. I am a man of my word. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5577
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 8:56 am: | |
Now.......back to the serious business of winding people up.
STH#209 is winnable Markus (and Glen).  |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5578
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 9:05 am: | |
Apologies. I popped your email address in the forum search engine and found where you'd put it. I don't understand how I overlooked it. Perhaps I did see it and wasn't interested in conducting a quiz via email. I can't remember. I'm very forgetful at the best of times. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1519
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 10:32 am: | |
Don't ask, why i didn't try the big Spades-pile at the beginning. Knowing it is winnable, i just saw this starting sequence and after that it is easy.
How often you restarted it? Now i did it in about 2 minutes. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5579
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 11:08 am: | |
I didn't restart it that often Markus. I tend to choose undo and redo as my first option. I just spotted a move that I'd overlooked and things fell into place after that. (Also with the big spades pile).
It is a pity that the clock restarts at zero when you restart a game. It gives a false impression about how quickly/slowly I solved it. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1520
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 11:32 am: | |
I know, that it take you more time than 3:50.1. And i know also, that when you post a screenshot, than only by the easier ones (i sometimes ask for) the time is as it is. No problem for me. I just wanted to know, how often you oversaw the moves with the Spades. I was again so fixed on another starting sequence, that i saw it then, when some hours had been between. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1521
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 11:45 am: | |
A nice number: #1888 . But so far just 2 points (I remember 3 but cannot get them any more.) |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5580
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 12:53 pm: | |
I abandoned the game for hours too. You tend to get out of the rut you were in before and spot something different.
I cannot find your 3 with #1888. The 2 is less of a problem. |
Mike Butler (Butler77)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Butler77
Post Number: 1821
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 12:55 pm: | |
Glen I thought I recognized your name from the Tiger Woods forum. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Junior Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 10:18 pm: | |
Fancy meeting you here Mike! I see you are one of the ST masters here. Awesome. I'm stuck on ST #406 at moment. Also wasn't able to solve ST #385 or ST #390. Have I missed something on these, anyone?
|
Mike Butler (Butler77)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Butler77
Post Number: 1826
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 10:44 pm: | |
Hi Glen. I don't play much ST. Markus is the ST guy. I haven't played TW recently. You all were to good for me. I haven't bought TW11 yet. But I may get it soon. Just for the heck of it. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1272
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 10:49 pm: | |
Glen, ST #390 is definitely winnable. I didn't get very far with the other two games. I don't think they're winnable, but wait for someone else's opinion just to make sure. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 3:15 am: | |
thanks Kathy. Now I know it's worth spending considerable time on. See you in a week :-)
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1528
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 5:39 am: | |
It seems my post i wrote this morning is gone.
Glen you are right with #385 and #406, but as Kathy already said, #390 is winnable. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5596
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 6:49 am: | |
#390 is not easy in my opinion. I had quite a number of attempts before I found the way to win it. If you want a clue Glen.....read on. If not, just ignore what's below.
The first card I put onto the foundations was the ace of clubs. I didn't put another one up until I had column two cleared. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1531
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:29 am: | |
The next unwinnable one in my opinion but i failed before. #1896. Hardly 1 point so far. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5602
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:49 am: | |
You have missed an obvious move Markus. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5603
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:56 am: | |
Still unwinnable. Best score 2. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 11:00 am: | |
thanks Richard. I know this is going to be hard to believe, but I didn't read your clue until after I had solved it, which was only 2 minutes after I read the first line of your msg. Absolutely true I swear! For me that was the most difficult game to date. I'm not used to having to do so many tiny swaps through the cells.
I did a test video of the starting moves I used. I used "debut" software with .wmv output format with a fair bit of compression (20MB size). If you do try viewing it please let me know whether it works for you. Debut records directly from the screen so you don't need a camera.
http://www.glenmcd.com/SeaTowers390.wmv
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1532
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 11:11 am: | |
Richard, you mean the two Aces? Not missed, forgotten. I had them the first or second try. But that is an dead end so i didn't try anymore.
Glen: Your film is working. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5604
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 12:55 pm: | |
Glen, I don't doubt that you won the game yourself. It would make no difference to me anyway. I had the same problem as you by the looks of things. Once you spot the move you can't believe you overlooked it for so long.
Your video works a treat. That could come in very handy
Matkus, my post about missing an obvious move was "tongue in cheek". You are not guilty of missing things as obvious as this. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 13
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 - 3:00 am: | |
Richard, I got your email and replied. Did you receive it? I've got a new mail server and it seems some outgoing emails are being "eaten". |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5653
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 - 4:14 am: | |
Hi Glen, As you've probably realised by now,I got it OK. Many thanks. I actually downloaded the software but I've yet to figure out how it works. I'm not even certain that it installed correctly. Another problem for another day. I may email you for tuition at some point in the future. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 2:05 am: | |
I couldn't see a "post bugs here" forum and I know this is a very active forum for SeaTowers players so I'm posting here. Maybe it's an issue with other games, I haven't tried..
First, have a look at this layout in SeaTowers:
http://www.glenmcd.com/MovableColumnBug_PGS.jpg
Obviously, a good move would be to move the Jack of hearts to 6 of hearts run over onto the King of hearts to Queen of hearts run, and then the 5 of hearts and then the 4 of hearts so as to form a King high run by itself in one column instead of using up 3 columns. Good value! I have three tableau piles spare. So I right click on the Jack of heats, and if it's possible to move the run of cards to ANYWHERE, PGS does it. Only in this case PGS refuses. I can use discrete moves (using LMB) to make the move, I can also do it by right clicking on 8H then JH then 8H then 5H then 4H. It's obviously very convenient to let the program work out whether there are enough empty cells/tableau piles to move any particular run of cards. If one can't trust it to be accurate, its value becomes questionable. I don't want to have to do discrete moves or do card counting. It's just far too tedious and takes away from the fun. I'm guessing this has been mentioned before and if so Richard/Markus/Mike/Thomas may be able to provide more info.
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1560
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 2:43 am: | |
Glen, you can solve the problem normally, when you put one card down to an empty pile and then click on the JH. Then it should be move as you wanted to. I don't know why sometimes must one of the 4 storage cells have to be empty. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 15
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 2:44 am: | |
Continuing from above bug post, PGS refuses to move the 9 of spades run, and also the queen of clubs run, each of which are movable using discrete moves. If I move any card out of cells and onto one of the empty tableau piles, PGS then moves using right click correctly. I guess the key here is that an empty tableau pile is always at least as good as an empty cell for the purpose of moving runs of cards.
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1561
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 3:59 am: | |
I know what you mean and i agree, that an empty tableau pile SHOULD always be the same as an empty cell, but in ST it isn't always so. You will have to wait for an answer of Gregg or Thomas.
I have to look, if it is the same in PGSME. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5665
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 6:18 am: | |
BUG.BUG,BUG.
Well done for spotting this bug Glen. I was puzzled that Markus and myself (in particular) haven't come across a single instance in the huge number of these we've played. I may have solved the mystery.
You played it in PGS whilst we have been playing in 101. I recreated your position in PGS and produced a bug. Legitimate cards would not move. However if I unchecked "kings only" in the Options, lo and behold the cards did what I wanted.
Let's wait and see what Gregg and Thomas say about this.
BTW Glen, feel free to create new threads if something like this shows up. They would be picked up more readily by G & T. OMG, Gin & Tonic. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1565
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 3:39 pm: | |
I just tried it in PGSME. It is the same. We have to wait for G or T, hics. |
Thomas Warfield (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 4:38 pm: | |
While I haven't actually recreated the game, looking at the screen shot and the text I don't see a bug. What cards you can move in that situation is going to depend greatly on the KingOnly setting.
Empty tableau piles are not the same as empty cells and don't work the same way. If KingOnly is off, in general they allow you to move more cards, but if KingOnly is on you can only move Kings or groups headed with a King in them.
If KingOnly is on, in the situation Glen describes the empty tableau piles will be effectively useless, and you won't be able to move the group that you want to move.
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1567
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 1:20 am: | |
Thomas, Glen had KingOnly off. When you look at the screenshot, then it is possible (playing card by card) with the 3 empty piles to get the Hearts onto the QH. Normally you can do it with a short cut while right-clicking on the JH. When you for example put the KS down in an empty pile, then you can right-click onto the JH and all Hearts will move together onto the QH. Glen meant, that this short-cut should also be possible with the 3 empty piles (as it works with 1 free cell and 2 empty piles). |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 16
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 1:27 am: | |
Thomas, I play with KingOnly off at all times. If I had KingOnly on, I wouldn't have been able to do the move using discrete moves either but as I mentioned in my report, I was able to. Another indicator that KingOnly is disabled in the picture is in the cards at top of tableau piles three and five. They are different to the original layout and this simply isn't possible with KingOnly option on. I can understand the initial confusion though, I should have called the game SeaTowers easy and not just SeaTowers.
|
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1294
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 3:22 am: | |
Glen, I have been following this thread as I play Sea Towers a lot. Could you explain to me what a "discrete move" means? I know what discrete means normally, but I'm not able to apply it here. Thanks. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1569
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 3:53 am: | |
Glen, Sea Towers had been right. With the KingOnly on we call it Sea Towers [Hard] as in PGSME. So we use mostly ST and STH and DST (Double Sea Towers).
Kathy, Glen mean with using discrete moves that he moves always just one card and not a group of cards, even if this would be possible. |
Thomas Warfield (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:09 am: | |
I wasn't able to recreate Glen's exact game, but I tested Sea Towers with KingOnly off and a bunch of empty tableau piles and I simply don't see any problem. Everything seems to be working perfectly, it allows only the moves that should be allowed and all moves that should be allowed are being allowed.
If you could save that game and send it to me, that would be helpful.
If it is working the same way in PGSME, that indicates to me that there is no bug, as the codes for the games are completely different. It is most likely a misunderstanding in what moves can be played.
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1572
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:25 am: | |
Thomas, i will look for the situation and post it. You can then open it with Goodsol 101 or Gregg with the PGSME or maybe you have also a Mac. I let hear. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1573
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:37 am: | |
So, got one.
Glen thought it would be nice, when you click (right-click) on the 6D then the Diamonds from 6 to 3 would move onto the 7D. You can do it with clicking on the 4D, then the 5D, then the 6D, the 5D and the 4d, then you have all Diamonds in the first pile.
When you now put a card from the cell (e.g. the 5S) into a free pile and click then on the 6D, then the shortcut works. That mean as you already mentioned, that a free cell and a empty pile is not the same.
Glen just thought, that the shortcut with 2 empty piles (and not 1 free cell and an empty pile) should work also. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 17
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 12:08 pm: | |
I've just created a rather artificial example that may help a little with understanding what we're dealing with here. Turn off "KingOnly" and "AutoPlay" and open the following game in PGS:
http://www.glenmcd.com/SeaTowers_974.pgs
You'll find six empty tableau piles, two runs of clubs and two runs of diamonds. It is possible to join these to form two larger runs using discrete moves and without using any cells or foundations. By right clicking on the top card it is possible to move the QD run onto the KD, but this does not work with the JC onto the QC run. The difference is that the clubs run is eight long and the diamonds is only seven. Even for the longer clubs run, six tableau piles is overkill - it can actually be done with just three. Both Markus and I pointed out that if you move one of the cell cards to an empty tableau pile that normal shortcut behaviour returns. In playing around with the game linked to above I found this is not always the case. But first, try restricting the number of empty tableau piles by moving cards from the spade foundation pile. Three empty tableaus is the minimum needed to merge all into two runs and with this few, even the diamond run won't move using the shortcut but still can using discrete moves. With just three empty tableaus, try moving the 3D from Cell #4 to tableau #8. Although both large runs are able to be merged using discrete moves or smaller shortcut moves, right clicking on the JC still does not merge the two club runs. The diamonds won't move using shortcut either.
I'm not confident that I understand how PGS run moves go using LMB but what I expected was that if the run of cards that you grab can be moved anywhere then you can drag them. If they can't all fit given the quantity you are trying to move then the run simply won't move. In above game with three empty tableaus and no empty cells, see how many of the club cards you can drag into one of the empty tableaus. I can drag four and this agrees with what I can do using discrete moves. But if I have one empty cell and two empty tableaus, suddenly PGS allows me to drag six cards. There's nowhere they can go as far as I can see. Next, put the nine of spades from tableau back onto foundations so you have four empty tableaus and no empty cells. PGS allows you to drag one extra card (five), however it is actually possible to move up to seven now using discrete moves and without using any cells, foundations or non-empty tableaus. Now setup again with three empty tableaus and one empty cell. PGS allows you to drag seven cards in the clubs run, but these have nowhere to go. Using discrete moves etc, I can only manage a six card move.
It looks like the same thing is happening in other games:
http://www.glenmcd.com/FreeCell_816088448.pgs
In the above FreeCell game, try right clicking on the 8D. Doesn't move for me. Using discrete moves or even three shortcut moves, it can be moved onto the 9S. Again, both AutoPlay and KingOnly are turned off.
|
Thomas Warfield (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 12:43 pm: | |
I'm unable to load the SeaTowers saved game for some reason, but I was able to load the FreeCell saved game.
Yes, the 8D is not going to move. This is, as far as I can tell, as it should be. Yes, you can make a few moves that will eventually get the whole group over, but really you are doing several moves in that process. It's rather different than just using cells as storage locations for a single card, you are using empty tableau piles as storage for multiple cards over multiple moves. There's really no way for that to be done or calculated for a single move that I can see. The game is doing what it was intended to do.
Part of the confusion here, I think, is over how moving cards with empty tableau piles works. Your expectation of how the grabbing works isn't quite how it works. This is because the number of cards you can move actually depends on where you move the cards to, when there are empty tableau piles. When you move a group of cards to a non-empty tableau pile, you can move more cards than if you are moving the same group to an empty tableau pile. This is because when you are moving the cards to an empty tableau pile, you cannot use that pile as a temporary storage area because it is already the destination pile. You can use it if you are moving to another non-empty pile. Therefore, PGS allows you to pick up a group and it will work if you are moving to a non-empty pile, but if you move that same group to an empty pile, it won't work and the move will be rejected. So sometimes you can pick up more cards than you can actually move, if you try moving them to an empty tableau pile.
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1574
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 1:06 pm: | |
Thanks Thomas, that means the main definition of cells and tableau piles is different and the program of course cannot change this definition in dependence of the situation.
I so far sometimes wondered a little, but solved it with putting a card from the cells down and used then the short cut. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 18
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 3:29 am: | |
Thomas, when you tried to open my .pgs file, did you already have a Sea Towers game running? If not then at least for me it won't work. I've checked the file I uploaded (by downloading) and it opens fine in PGS with Sea Towers already running.
|
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 6:01 am: | |
FWIW, here's a formula for calculating how large a card run may be moved, given the count of empty cells (C) and empty tableau piles (T):
max length run movable = (2^T)*(1+C)
For 2 empty tableau and 1 spare cell:
(2^2)*(1+1) = (4)*(2) = 8
For 1 empty tableau and 2 empty cells:
(2^1)*(1+2) = (2)*(3) = 6
|
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5684
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 7:54 am: | |
Trial and error also works fine. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1303
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 8:04 am: | |
I certainly hope so, because Glen is way out of my league. I wouldn't even begin to know how to apply that to a game, but then I was never great at math. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1576
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 8:38 am: | |
Richard, i just see it and i am right (that you can move them) in about 90%. |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5687
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 9:55 am: | |
I'm not sure I am following this discussion at all now Markus.
The rules say that you can fill empty columns or move any groups provided that there is room to do so. The 3 and 4D could be moved one at at time into both of the empty columns. Then the 3 would go onto the 4. Then the 5D would go into the other empty column. That would allow you to move the 6 onto the 7 and reassemble all of the diamonds beneath it. You don't need any cells to be free to get this to work. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1577
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 10:14 am: | |
I know what's all about and i know that the shortcut just with empty piles don't work, even if it is possible doing it with discrete moves.
I just answered to your post with "Trial and error". I just see it, i don't need to calculate.
And i agree, that it would be nice, when the shortcut would work as you described. So far i put a card back onto a free pile and use then the shortcut moving them all.
And i understand maybe the problem in programming it right, but i also see, that it should be possible to bring it into the game. |
Thomas Warfield (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 10:30 am: | |
Glen,
That is indeed the basic formula and what the game uses for the basic case (that formula doesn't take into account the complication of the destination tableau pile, but it works in most cases). |
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5688
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 10:53 am: | |
Thanks Markus. I see what you are saying now. It is just the shortcut that doesn't work every time. I don't think that this is much to grumble about. We know how to work round it. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 12:35 pm: | |
"Trial and Error" was precisely what got me into this area in the first place! I was using right click as a test as suggested in PGS help docs. If it moved then it was a legal move and I could ignore how many discrete moves it would have taken. Only after a while it just didn't seem right. And it wasn't. The same thing is happening for other players but most either don't realise that something is wrong or they've already developed their own workaround. Above average puzzle solvers (you know who you are) develop workarounds in the game app itself as just another puzzle easily solved and without even realising they're doing it / have done it. Successful resolving of a glitch/issue/bug is not the same thing as developing workarounds and requires a number of processes that no one person can do alone. I see here a small group of guys (and gal) that have succeeded in presenting this to Thomas in a way that lets him know what it is and any benefits of resolving.
Yes, of course we know how to work around it. But we're also doing something for the silent majority.
|
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5689
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 12:50 pm: | |
Gotcha! |
Mike Butler (Butler77)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Butler77
Post Number: 1845
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 1:15 pm: | |
The silent ones will never be found here Glen.
(of course not mike, then they would no longer be silent) Just saving Richard the time to mention it. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1307
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 1:31 pm: | |
Glen, I still don't know what you're talking about. Am I playing the same Sea Towers as you are? To me, it's either winnable or unwinnable and not complicated at all. If it works, why fix it? |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1308
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 1:52 pm: | |
As you can tell, I am not and have never been a member of the silent majority, although I am sure there are those who wish I would join. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 21
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 2:39 pm: | |
Yes we're playing the same Sea Towers Kathy. Whether a particular game is winnable or not depends on the feedback that the game gives you on what moves are legal. So, it's critical that it is correct on every occasion. PGS in fact isn't providing totally accurate feedback on the legality of every move and whilst many people are affected, few actually realise it. You may be one. The critical question is: "do you move groups (runs) of cards including at times when all cells are full but two or more tableau piles are empty?" If the answer to this is yes, then it's possible that some games you find unwinnable, you would suddenly find winnable if and when the issue is fixed. You might also find yourself using a slightly more agressive playing style that wins games faster/easier or with fewer moves.
|
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1309
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 3:06 pm: | |
This is a little confusing, but if all the cells are full and there are two tableau piles empty, then I have the choice of bring down one or two of the cards in the cells, and if possible, then I can move only enough cards in a group as there are cells that are empty. For instance, if I bring down a 9C in one tableau and a 10H in the other tableau, then I can move only two matching cards for each cell unless by doing so, another cell can then be played on the cards I moved to the tableau, which is what I do. So what I'm saying is what then is the problem? Is there something else I can do that I'm not aware of? I think I may have just confused us both. |
Thomas Warfield (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 4:23 pm: | |
I will be looking at this issue later to see if there is anything I can do.
I think you may be trying to put into one move what is very complex multi-move operation and it may or may not be possible to calculate that.
|
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 12:48 am: | |
>may or may not be possible to calculate that.
I can't see any reason for having to calculate anything beyond determining whether the move can be done or not. The undo system undoes the run move rather than discrete moves that would make up the run move. Run moves in applicable games are ALWAYS to a tableau, either empty or not empty. Just assume that the destination tableau is not available for temporary storage, count the remaining empty tableau piles and cells, use the formula above and compare with number of cards in the run attempted at being moved. The answer is either yes or no. If I've overlooked something and PGS really does need to calculate the sequence of discrete moves, then my answer to this is that PGS already does it. It treats an empty cell as temporary storage of one or zero cards during the run move. If no empty cells but there are one or more empty tableaus, there's your temporary storage for zero or one card during the run move. I know it works because our (perfect) workaround is simply moving a card from a cell to an empty tableau, letting PGS do the run move, and then optionally moving the workaround card back to its empty cell. So logically speaking at least, all that's required of PGS is to perform this workaround automatically. Going the extra step to allow this without it being perceived as a workaround becomes a developer issue and no longer a player issue. |
Thomas Warfield (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 9:08 am: | |
>Just assume that the destination tableau is not available for
>temporary storage, count the remaining empty tableau piles and
>cells, use the formula above and compare with number of cards in
> the run attempted at being moved.
This is of course what the game does, it uses the formula to determine the number of cards that can be moved. It's already calculating this and using this to determine how many cards to allow to move (with the complicating factor that when you pick up the cards, it doesn't know the destination yet).
What you are asking for, I think, is some other calculation above and beyond the formula for some additional cards allowed.
|
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 23
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 11:58 am: | |
>some other calculation above and beyond the formula for some additional cards allowed.
Not at all. KingOnly (if on) respected, allow the same moves with no empty cells and X empty tableau piles, as PGS already does with 1 empty cell and X-1 empty tableau piles. It's a one liner for sure Thomas. :-)
|
Thomas Warfield (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 12:05 pm: | |
Then, Glen, I guess I don't understand. What you see in the game is the formula in action - it is already using it (has been for nearly 15 years).
|
Gregg Seelhoff (Seelhoff)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Seelhoff
Post Number: 485
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 5:57 pm: | |
>max length run movable = (2^T)*(1+C)
For what it's worth, PGSME, GS101, MPS, and FCP all use the formula (T+1)*(C+1) for determining the maximum number of cards that can be moved, and T*(C+1) for the number of cards that can be moved into an empty space in the tableau (eliminating the use of one T  ).
This discussion is not about the mathematics as much as it is about the philosophical idea of what the shortcut represents. The above formulas represent, for the lack of a better term, 'simple' moves using the cells and empty spaces, whereas your formula (with the exponentiation) represents 'complex' moves that require additional work (in the style of Tower of Hanoi).
Personally, my opinion is that the shortcut is not intended to be a rigorous mathematical calculation, but as the name implies, a shortcut to avoid the tedium of moving individual cards (reducing the "fun factor"). Practically, too, there is the fact that it has been this way for a decade and a half. Changing it now (IMHO) is a step (albeit a tiny one) towards reducing the skill required in solving each deal/puzzle.
To put it in absurdist terms, almost all FreeCell games could have a 'Solve It' button, since they are provably solvable, but that would not be much fun to play.
|
Gregg Seelhoff (Seelhoff)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Seelhoff
Post Number: 486
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 6:13 pm: | |
Oh, yeah...
Although it, as you stated, "becomes a developer issue and no longer a player issue", making this change affects around 5% of PGS games (specifically, 11 of the 200/245 games in the current version of PGSME, and PGS has 750 games now) some of which may have rules that invalidate the alternative calculation, so your "one liner for sure" does have farther reaching (quality assurance) consequences than that phrase suggests.
That said, I must note that I truly appreciate your looking at PGS so rigorously; you should definitely be a part of our beta test team.
Finally, just so you know what my opinion is worth, I make whatever changes Thomas tells me to implement.
|
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 24
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 1:18 am: | |
All interesting points that are difficult to disagree with Gregg. At a minimum though, the help needs to be updated so others don't face the same confusing situation:
"Clicking on a card with the right mouse button is a good way to check to see if there are any legal moves for that card."
This is in "Mouse Shortcuts" page of the PGS help docs.
Interesting point about reducing the skill required in solving each deal/puzzle. I personally have AutoPlay off because to me it represents exactly this. To put it in absurdist terms, one may open a new game and simply watch all cards move to foundations followed by congratulations!! That would be like having a "solve now" button but without having to click on it bwahahah. But when it comes to moves of a run, splitting it up into smaller moves is just plain tedium - for me now.
The key thing I suspect is what YOU have and have not learned at THIS point in time. You face a challenge, you work out a solution, you implement it again and again (practise makes perfect) and finally, you really are perfect at solving that challenge and thus don't need to practise its implementation any more and this is when it needs to be automated. So to maximise the fun factor, a game app needs to adapt to the player. For example, allowing moving of runs (2+) of cards for a player that doesn't yet know how it would be done using discrete moves, removes that challenge phase.
This line of discussion reflects directly on part of PGS' success, and that is the ways in which the most tedious phases of card games have been removed:
1. Unlimited undo and redo
2. Moving runs of cards with one click
3. ...
Each of these could be seen as a tiny step towards reducing the skill required in solving each deal/puzzle. In fact they are, but only if you are so new to the game that you haven't mastered these initial challenges. Why has it worked? Because Windows' "Solitaire" game provided the perfect introduction. Through its limited player assistance, it forces new players to learn the basics.
1. You learn to consider each move rather than just randomly move cards about. Then you are ready for "undo".
2. You learn not to forget which move that you have just used "undo" on. Then you are ready for "redo".
3. You learn about how to use discrete moves to achieve the movement of a run of cards. Then you are ready for one click movement of runs.
4. You learn about legal destinations for a card or run and any considerations req when facing a choice. Then you are ready for RMB in PGS.
That brings us up to where PGS is now. Through allowing the removal of tedium for those with the basic skills (mostly learned in Windows Solitaire), it allows them to take their skill level even higher. It's hard to keep your mind on a puzzle when your mind is not allowed to escape from the tiny puzzles within the smaller puzzles within the big puzzle.
By effectively supporting all player experience levels, PGS can both survive without Windows Solitaire (although MS probably never will remove it), and open up the opportunity for advanced players to raise their skills even higher. The ultimate of course, is someone that can simply look at a layout and can determine quickly whether winning is possible, and if so, the opening sequence required to achieve the win. Don't think about how boring being there would be. Think about how exciting the journey to there could be.
|
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1318
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 3:55 am: | |
Glen, whenever I get carried away and start ranting and raving over something, the other players usually tell me to relax and just have fun. So, I'll follow their lead and beg you to just enjoy playing the game. P.S. I hope I don't get in trouble for this, but if I do, it won't be the first time. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1583
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 4:41 am: | |
Kathy, i tried you to tell, that the discussion is on a point we should not interrupt, especially, when you don't know exactly what's up.
Glen, it would be nice for me too, when your explained shortcut would work. |
Kathy Quade (Kathyquade)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Kathyquade
Post Number: 1319
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 4:49 am: | |
I told you I'd get into trouble. I'm sorry, I didn't know that that many people were interested or that it was that important. Please go ahead with the discussion, and I promise I won't interrupt anymore. |
Thomas Warfield (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 8:47 am: | |
Gregg is right, I didn't notice that actually we are using a somewhat different formula than Glen. I'm not sure how Glen derived his formula, it seems to allow too many cards with multiple tableau piles open.
Yes, this impacts many, many games, although actually the code for the formula is all in one routine. But there are several different cases involved, of which the formula in question is just one case. There are lots of rules variations.
This is something we'll look at and see if it makes any sense to allow more cards to be moved. However, it will definitely be some time when it is not a week where we have just done two new releases.
|
Richard Mechen (Richardscotland)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Richardscotland
Post Number: 5696
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 9:28 am: | |
As this is quite a technical issue that Glen has raised and that Thomas and Gregg have responded to, would it not be a good idea if the matter was resolved by email between the parties involved? In my opinion we need to move on. |
Gregg Seelhoff (Seelhoff)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Seelhoff
Post Number: 487
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 12:32 pm: | |
One final (?) note...
I just checked, and both the Windows versions of FreeCell (up through XP and since Vista) calculate the available moves in exactly the same way as the Goodsol games, and they even report the precise number of cards that can be moved. (FreeCell and Sea Towers use the same calculation routine.)
This argues against the change, especially since we would then have customers asking why our FreeCell is "broken" because it is not the same as the one they started playing.
|
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 25
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 9:21 am: | |
Markus these should now agree with your list for ST up to #1000:
#45,#167,#263,#288,#299,#317,#321,#385,#406,#427,# 632,#636,#695,#756,#777,#903,#937
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1586
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 10:12 am: | |
Glen, #636 and #903 are winnable. |
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1587
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 10:19 am: | |
Just replayed them. Yes, both winners. |
Glen McDiarmid (Glenmcd)
Intermediate Solitaire Player
Username: Glenmcd
Post Number: 26
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 10:35 am: | |
ah okay thanks. You mentioned above there are another 9 unwinnable games heading up to 1000, I assumed you meant above #385 which is where I was at back then. So taking out #636 and #903 makes it a total of just 15.
|
Markus Reischl (Markus)
Master Solitaire Player
Username: Markus
Post Number: 1589
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 12:49 pm: | |
I just looked over, Glen. Your post from 6th of august (3:07 am) ended with #317. From there on are 9 not winners. (321,385, 406, 427, 632, 695, 756, 777 and 937). |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page