Spider 34912305

I can get 3 columns cleared in the first deal - then it goes south. Maybe I'm losing it.

Comments

  • Member, Beta Tester
    It should be winnable. Getting columns cleared isn't that difficult even late in the game. The problem is that groups of the same rank keep cropping up and clogging the works. Believe me, you're not losing it. It's a bad one. It will need a lot of effort to put it to bed ..... but we will. I'm too tired to do much more with it at the moment. It's quite late. Will kick its butt tomorrow.
  • Member, Beta Tester
    Wow! Not surprised you haven't solved this monster. The best effort I've achieved so far is a column with 12 consecutive hearts in it. I've never played a Spider that is so reluctant to let me get a suit out. Will persevere.
  • Yeah, I got the hearts... also was able to get 9 consecutive clubs. Cleared 2 columns with 30 left in the stock - but that's about as far as I can get. That last deal is a killer.
  • edited February 2016 Member, Beta Tester
    Yes, I got the 9 consecutive clubs too. The game is riddled with problems. From the off the tableau is littered with aces that just get in the road. The second last deal chucks up four twos when they are of no use to you. Immediately thereafter we get four jacks dumped on top.
    I've been playing it for several hours, often starting from scratch to see if I could prevent critical cards from being covered by useless ones. Nothing works. It pains me to say any game is unwinnable but that is my considered opinion of this one. I've enjoyed playing it though. There is a satisfaction to be had every time you manage to resolve a mini-problem in it. I doubt if I'll play at it any more this evening but I can't rule out tomorrow. :)>-
  • Did somebody say "monster"? Excellent, it's been long enough since I've played a game of Spider. I went to visit the monster and managed to disintegrate it into 8 neatly arranged piles of 13-card same-suit-sequences.

    This monster was particularly insidious, because I managed to uncover almost the entire tableau with all 50 cards still in the stock, but the game kept getting nastier and nastier with each deal due to every deal containing numerous cards of the same rank, culminating in the already mentioned "killer" deal at the end where no play is possible.

    Uncovering the K♡ in column 6 early on was probably crucial, because otherwise the Heart sequence from Ace to Queen is useless until the last deal (when the second K♡ appears), and none of the other suits are completely available in the tableau before the 4th deal (originally, I dissolved column 9 instead of column 6 immediately before the first deal, but that got me nowhere).

    Record of the monster's decomposition attached.
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    Spider_34912305.pgs
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  • edited February 2016 Member, Beta Tester
    Does this look familiar? The link even mentions your name. The whole idea of playing solitaire is to do it yourself, hence the name .... solitaire.
    https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=solving+software+for+Spider+solitaire
  • Of course it looks familiar, this website is what motivated me to try to solve the most difficult spiders, because it made clear the percentage of winnable Spiders. I even linked to that website myself in this forum here: http://www.goodsol.net/forum/vanilla/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/8293/#Comment_8293. It's also true that I helped solve some of the (at that time) unsolved Spiders mentioned on that website (by myself, not with a solver).

    And if you're insinuating that I used solving software to solve this game (#34912305), you're wrong. I couldn't even have done it with plspider, because the downloadable exe file doesn't play any Spider hand, it only plays a select number of Spider hands from the game PySol, and I never really figured out how to use it anyway. If I had used solving software to solve the game, first of all, I would have waited until you had definitely given up on it, because I wouldn't have wanted a program to ruin it for you, and I would also have given credit to the program and not claimed that I had done it by myself. But since I don't have a Spider solver at my disposal, that was not even an option.

    It's not really a proof that I solved the game by myself, but I've uploaded a video I've made while solving the game, to help recreate a path after changing one move in the past. At that point in the game, I figured out that I could save the 8♡ in column 10 from being buried by the 9♢ from the 3rd deal, which in turn would enable me to have one extra column at 0:06/0:07 in the video: The 7♡ from column 7 can be appended to the 8♡, the 8♡ itself can be appended to the 9♢ it was originally buried under, and the 4♠–3♠ can go on top of the 5♡. Without the free 8♡, there is no 8 to append the 7♡ to. If you check my solution, you will find that this is what I did.

    The video is 2MB large, but when I recorded it, I didn't think that I would be uploading it to this forum to dispel suspicions that I used solving software to solve the game …
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    clip0003.zip
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  • Also, you might want to re-read the second paragraph of this comment by me in the same thread: http://www.goodsol.net/forum/vanilla/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/8300/#Comment_8300. I even admitted that I considered using a solver to solve the unsolved Spiders from the old forum, which is a clue to the fact that I wouldn't have a problem with attributing the solution of a difficult Spider game to someone (or something) else.
  • And on the point of the 32000 Spider games from the website: 2 of the 3 unsolved games can be proven to be unwinnable, but in the 3rd one, I've actually managed to get FOUR sequences out of play, one of each suit (yes, I was only able to do that with an opening of plspider that cleared a column, I won't deny that I couldn't even get a column cleared by myself), and the game was still unwinnable. Can you imagine that?
  • Member, Beta Tester
    I intensely dislike bots that can solve Freecell and Spider games. When your name become associated with one you will find that you get little or no credit for any game you may have solved by yourself. The ancient and noble game of Chess has been by ruined by computer programs like Deep Blue that can evaluate 200 million moves per second. What is the point?
  • Yeah, well, as I said, plspider.exe is programmed in a way that it only plays the first 32.000 games from PySol, so your accusation that I used plspider to solve this game of Spider is not valid anyway. Also, it's OK if I don't get credit for having solved that game, I just don't like being accused of lying about having solved the game myself when in fact I have. Sorry if I ruined it for you, though, but when I saw that even you were having difficulties with it (your second post in this thread), I became curious, so I tried the Spider myself. When you wrote that you'd give up for the day, I had already been working on it for several hours.

    I don't know about you, but I think it's interesting to know that 31,997 of 32,000 Spider games are winnable, and without a solver, it would probably have taken a very long time to find that out. At least it motivated me to try and solve the previously unsolved Spiders in this and the old forum.

    And also, when I fail to solve a game, I'd like to know whether that was because the game is really unwinnable or because I just couldn't win it. You'd probably need to apply brute-force to determine whether a Spider game is unwinnable if columns can be cleared, and that would take forever, but if the solver wins, you know that game wasn't really unwinnable. Like with the one remaining inconclusive game from the 32.000, without plspider, I couldn't even clear a column, but when I learned that plspider eventually managed to clear a column, I used that opening and, after MANY hours, managed to get 4 sequences up.
  • Member, Beta Tester
    I have serious problems with vision. Therefore when I see massively long posts it takes so much effort to read them that I just don't bother some of the time. As I said above, once your name is associated with a bot solver, people will always be suspicious about your solutions whether you used one or not. I doubt if I play one Spider in a year. It's obvious that people who play it regularly will get better results. I will accept that you won this game by your own efforts. Well done.
  • Well, I beat it finally, without "looking" at the solution. Didn't know there was a program that would solve it for you either.
  • edited February 2016 Member, Beta Tester
    That was the point that Max cleared up.. I didn't realise that the program only covers a very limited number of Spider games, 1 - 32,000. Incredibly only 3 of those were losers! I hope he decides to post the game numbers. It would be a nice exercise to play them occasionally and see if we could increase our own personal best scores.
  • To avoid misunderstandings: The game numbers 1 to 32,000 in this context don't refer to Pretty Good Solitaire, but to a different solitaire software. The games produced by both programs with these numbers don't seem to be related.
  • Member, Beta Tester
    That's a pity. Thanks.
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