Spider the 5000s



  • I've managed to get one set of Spades and one set of Clubs out and have 3 empty columns, but apparently, the undo history of LibreOffice Calc is not large enough to store all the moves I've made since the 5th deal. Great, now I have to play the game again from the 5th deal in a new file and see if I can get to the earliest position that's still saved in the undo history of the current file. And all of this hassle only because PGS seems to be so badly designed that the Windows and Mac version are completely incompatible with each other. But I doubt that the game is not winnable from the position I mentioned at the beginning of this post.
  • No that's what makes it frustrating , it looks winnable, but I haven't been able to do it. Send me a screen shot of your 3 empty column position. 3 empty columns should do it...
  • OK, I've assembled the presumable partial solution. It's based on some assumptions that were not made explicit in the data you provided, but that should, if I'm not mistaken, be true based on your screenshots:

    - The third card dealt to column 5 from the stock is a QH, not a QD (otherwise, there would be three QD's in the game)
    - The last card in column 10 is a 6C
    - The last card in column 6 is a 4C

    First, here are the opening moves:

    9 -> 10

    1st deal

    8 -> 9
    4 -> 1

    2nd deal

    Then, I've recorded the positions immediately before the 3rd, 4th and 5th deal as a spreadsheet (see the .ods files in the attached .zip archive).

    Then, here are the moves immediately after the 5th deal:

    9 -> 6
    9 -> 8
    6 -> 5
    4 -> 8
    4 -> 6
    1 -> 5
    1 (4D) -> 4
    5 -> 1
    4 -> 5
    8 (3C) -> 4
    5 -> 8
    4 -> 5
    3 (3C) -> 4
    3 (QD) -> 9
    3 -> 6
    1 -> 3
    4 -> 1
    3 (4H) -> 4
    3 -> 10
    3 -> 9
    3 -> 1
    3 -> 6
    2 -> 6
    2 -> 1
    2 -> 10
    9 -> 2
    3 -> 2
    4 -> 10
    1 -> 10
    3 -> 1

    col 3 clear, 3 empty spaces

    1 -> 2
    10 -> 1
    10 -> 6
    8 -> 6
    8 (AC) -> 3
    8 -> 2
    1 -> 8
    3 -> 1
    7 (QC) -> 3
    7 -> 10
    5 -> 7
    8 -> 5
    10 -> 8
    7 -> 10 (by temporarily placing the 7S in col 8)
    8 (JH) -> 4
    7 -> 8
    4 -> 7
    6 -> 8
    7 (QH) -> 4
    6 -> 7
    4 -> 6
    10 -> 6
    10 (9D) -> 9
    8 -> 10
    9 -> 8
    10 -> 7

    one set of Spades out, 2 empty columns

    2 -> 7
    2 (KD) -> 4
    2 -> 8
    10 -> 2
    6 -> 8
    8 (9D) -> 9
    4 -> 8
    9 -> 4
    1 -> 8
    5 -> 6
    5 (3D) -> 9
    4 -> 5
    9 -> 4
    7 -> 4
    1 -> 2
    1 -> 5
    8 (4H) -> 9
    5 -> 8 (Clubs out)
    9 -> 5
    7 (3C) -> 9
    6 -> 7
    9 -> 6
    1 (AD) -> 9
    5 -> 1
    9 -> 5
    6 -> 2
    6 -> 8
    7 -> 6
    3 -> 7

    What I did was follow my own suggestion of clearing column 3 after backtracking from the position in the screenshot you uploaded two days ago. I didn't play the game until the end, since I can't be sure about the values of some of the face-down cards, but with two 13-card-sets removed and three empty spaces, I think the game should be winnable from there. Good luck!
    game positions.zip
  • Oh yeah, I should explain the solution. The numbers refer to columns, e.g. 4 -> 9 means to move one or more cards from column 4 to column 9 (the number of cards to move is clear by the uppermost card in the target column, except when the target column is empty, in which case I've included the bottommost card of the source column that is to be moved (e.g. if 4H-3H is to be moved together, I've mentioned the 4H). Sometimes, one move refers to a sequence that is not in-suit, in which case empty columns or other non-empty columns have to be used as temporary placeholders.
  • Thanks! Will try & work it out. Here are all the cards I did post the hidden cards before, only 2 that are not certain, could be transposed I suppose but unlikely. The deals are so similar only 3 cards different.
  • Yes you're right it should be a QH in the 5th column. Hope there are no other errors, I don't normally put the deals onto the file.
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  • Am with you as far as the 4th deal, but cannot get to your before 5th deal position. However you have got me to download Open Office.... I don't see how you get out the QD & the long stack below it in column 4 without a 5 somewhere or a double space as the 4D in that column blocks it. Columns 2,3,5,7,&8 are essentially unchanged
  • Thanks for all of your help - Done finally, not quite the same before the 5th deal, but almost
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  • Ah yes, I've tried it, and you're right, the before 4th deal position doesn't seem to work. I must have made some changes in hindsight which I neglected to save. I'm sorry about that. But I'm glad to see that you still managed to solve it – congratulations! Now this game can be finally put to rest, and Spider's reputation of being almost always winnable shines once again.

    By the way, if I remember correctly (I'm on Linux right now, so I can't try it out), the deal logic is the same for every type of game (e.g. FreeCell, Klondike, Golf, etc.), it's just the layout that's different. What I mean by that is that a deal number should yield the same permutation of 52 (or 104) cards regardless of the game type, and these cards are then laid out in a game-specific manner. Maybe that way, you can check whether a deal is identical in the Windows an Mac version, by comparing to games where all cards are visible in the beginning (like FreeCell, but with 104 cards).
  • edited July 2018 Member, Beta Tester
    I think I should tell you that I advised Harley to buy the Goodsol 101 collection like I did several days ago. After that we both had the same deals and could open one another's saved games in dot goodsol format, he on a Mac and me on Windows.. The simplest solutions are always the best.
  • Really? But in the screenshot you posted on July 2, a 10♣ is visible in column 7, even though the face-down cards from column 3 are untouched. In Harley's game, both 10♣ are buried face-down in column 3. Was the screenshot you posted not from the Goodsol 101 collection?
  • Ah, your comment from July 7 suggest that you purchased the Goodsol 101 collection after the aforementioned screenshot, since you said that you were still trying to beat the game. Nevertheless, it's a pity that such a solution is even required. But yes, in general, the simplest solutions are best, I agree.
  • Member, Beta Tester
    You do realise that you've just called me a liar don't you?
    Explain the following attachment then maestro. It was sent to me from harleyxxx after I told him I had repurchased 101. (I had it years ago on another PC). He subsequently bought it and was then able to send me a game he saved using it.
    This conversation has finished.
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  • I did not call you a liar. I just considered the possibility that you were mistaken in your assumption that the deals are identical. There is a difference.

    When it turned out that my game was different from Harley's, I looked at your screenshot trying to find out whether you were playing my game or Harley's, because I wanted to know whether the difference between the two deals might have something to do with the program version, so if your game would have been identical to Harley's it might have been that you have a newer version than I and that I might be able to solve this problem by downloading a newer version.

    So when you wrote that you were able to play the same deal as Harley with the Goodsol 101 collection, I had already examined your screenshot and deducted that it was the same game as mine, which is why I was surprised when you said you played the same deal as Harley.

    So I never assumed bad faith, but I thought you might have simply missed the difference. But as I said, I realized afterwards that your original screenshot was probably from PGS, and that you only obtained Goodsol 101 after that. I wonder why you assume that I have a hostile attitude towards you.
  • BTW, I did ask whether the screenshot was from Goodsol 101 collection, so I actually considered this possibility all along.
  • Member, Beta Tester
    Max, the screenshot from July 2nd was from Windows PGS. The background colour there is green. The background in 101 is blue. They look completely different. Only Harley has posted those. I must have overooked your post. When he sent me a dot goodsol file I didn't have a program that could open it. That's why I bought 101 and then suggested he do likewise. This whole mess (and expense) could have been avoided had the deals been the same in both formats. All of us have wasted a considerable amount of time. Recently I haven't had much of that but the arrival of the World Cup and Wimbledon made matters a whole lot worse.
    Anyway, all games were defeated. . Job done. Lessons learned. Faults on both sides. Time we moved on. :)
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